Report to Core Curriculum and College Services Committee

College of Engineering

1999-2000 Business and Finance Alumni Survey

by

 

 

Task Group

Robert J. Gustafson

Jose Castro

Pam Hussen

Robert Lundquist

 

1 September 2000

 

 

 

 

Background

 

Based on results of the 1998-1999 College of Engineering Alumni Surveys (2 nd , 6 th and 15 th year) and feedback from other sources, the Core Curriculum and College Services Committee established a Task Group to study the nature of the difference between perceived importance verse preparation of College of Engineering B.S. graduates in the area of business/finance. This is one of six areas where gaps between Ability/Preparation and Importance were identified from 1998-99 alumni surveys.

 

As one approach to data gathering, the Task Group choose to develop a survey of alumni to further define what preparation or abilities alumni felt where of highest priority in this area. The Task Group reviewed topics covered in current business and finance courses (ISE 504 Engineering Economics http://www-iwse.eng.ohio-state.edu/%7Ecoursep/ise504/SylSu00.html; ISE 640 Project Management http://www-iwse.eng.ohio-state.edu/~coursep/ise640/Syl640Sp00.html) taken by engineers as well as a newly proposed business minor, and consulted with persons teaching in this area. Using this information, a three-part survey was developed. The first survey part listed nine topics commonly included and asked alumni for a rating of Importance of the topics. The option for adding additional topics and rating their importance was given. The second survey part dealt with preferred ways to introduce the material into the curriculum. Three approaches were described. Participants were asked to rate least to most preferred. An opportunity to suggest an alternative was also given. The final part of the survey was an open ended question asking for brief descriptions of where the person may have benefited from increased knowledge in this area. A draft survey was reviewed by colleagues from the College of Business and a prototype tested with one Departmental Advisor Committee prior to finalization.

 

The survey was included as an extra one-page with the 1999-2000 alumni surveys. Surveys were mailed to 2,038 alumni of the 2 nd (1997), 6 th (1993), and 15 th (1984) year alumni groups. Three hundred and ninety two (392) useable surveys returned. One hundred and six made written comments in response to the third question.

 

Results

 

Part A. The following question was posed as the first question in the survey. "How would you rate the importance of the following specific business/finance topics for undergraduate engineering education?" Using a weighting scale of 1 to 5 (1 Not Important to 5 Extremely Important), the table below shows a statistical summary for the responses. They are rank ordered from highest to lowest importance. A listing of all responses given to the "Other" option are shown below in categories created by the Task Group.

 

Rank	Topic	Mean	Std. Dev.	Mode
1	Project management	4.24/5	0.70	5/5
2	Other (See list below)	3.96/5	1.20	5/5
3	Cost accounting/cost estimating	3.68/5	1.00	4/5
4	Decision analysis	3.63/5	1.03	4/5
5	Finance	2.97/5	0.96	3/5
6	Organizational behavior/organizational theory	2.94/5	1.03	3/5
7	Marketing	2.83/5	1.11	3/5
8	Entrepreneurship	2.59/5	1.08	2/5
9	Business law	2.41/5	1.04	2/5

 

Other Topics List :

 

Management

Management of people.

People skills

Public speaking, technical writing.

Dealing with the corporate lifestyle.

Quality system management.

 

Finance

Engineering Economics

General principles, ISE 504

Budget cost/benefit analysis.

Cost as an independent variable

Economic parameters.

 

Business

Business case development/cost justification.

Business processes - supply chain, distribution, etc.

Most of the design engineers I work with need to care more about the business side of things.

Require a business plan for design projects increasing in completion as you get close to graduation.

International studies/business.

 

Accounting

Business accounting.

Activity-based accounting.

Earned value management

 

Law

Law pertaining to product liability.

Patent/Intellectual property law.

Patent law.

Regulations, international aspects of business currency transfer.

Contract negotiation.

 

Misc

Process mapping.

Current civil software.

Personal budget.

Informative systems/DBA.

Core engineering center.

Internet use

Approved electives.

 

 

Part B. In the second survey section, the following question was asked. "Which of the following do you think would be the preferred way to introduce more business/finance in the undergraduate curriculum?" Respondents were asked to rank options1 to 4 (1 least preferred, 4 most preferred). Other approaches was a listed option. Responses to the option for other approaches are listed below.

Rank	Topic	Mean	Std. Dev.	Mode
1	Other approaches (See list below)	2.47/5	1.28	1/4
2	Add more business/finance courses(s) in lieu of some others	2.50/4	1.16	4/4
3	Add more business/finance coverage in current courses	2.89/4	0.93	3/4
4	Increase the business/finance content of the capstone/design project	2.89/4	0.93	3/4

 

Other Approaches List

Add business/finance courses as technical electives.

Provide a pool of courses with the requirement to take one or two of these courses.

Have focused electives, show importance to employers.

 

Make business courses BERs. (Basic Educational Requirements)

Include business/finance as GECs.

Remove humanities/electives and replace with business/finance.

 

Initiate a business class as prerequisite to the College of Engineering .

Use business courses as a prerequisite.

Tie business classes in with engineering courses.

 

Add a new product cost estimation course.

Add a class for finance survey.

Management classes.

Design a business course for engineers.

An accounting class for non-accounting majors.

Add class to cover basics of all areas.

Add more project management/cost estimating/strategic planning courses

Add more courses.

 

Improve business course currently in program.

Improve content in current courses.

 

Require internships.

Expand co-op/internship qualifying jobs.

 

Mini design projects in multiple classes with cost of technology discussion emphasized.

 

Relate importance of finance/business to engineering in all courses.

 

Integrate into labs.

 

Offer engineering degree with a minor in business management.

 

Team up with a local company on projects.

Interact with local government/business through a new course to study financial data as it relates to a specific project.

 

A colloquium series or reading list.

 

1 or 2 credit independent study.

 

Cross T.A.s with College of Business .

 

Business communication.

Supply chain management understanding.

Stock market effects on company.

Auditing analysis methods.

Business and finance as it pertains to engineering.

Stress real world problems and situations not mostly research.

 

Increase EE to a five-years program.

 

 

Part C. Respondents were asked to "Please use the back of this sheet to briefly describe specific situations where you would have benefited from increased business/finance knowledge." One hundred and six of the three hundred and ninety-two respondents (27%) made written comments.

 

All written comments are included as an Appendix. The task group observed that the written comments seem to be very consistent with the priorities indicated in Part A. Importance of including these topics in the capstone design class was very apparent in the comments received.

 

 

Appendix - Survey Part C Business and Finance Survey Comments

 

•  I was heavily involved in a project to operate our facility (an electric generation plant) as a separate entity from the head corporation and to evaluate all of our decisions from the viewpoint of a company trying to make the most cost effective decision (generation, maintenance, etc) while working within the constraints of a contract with our purchaser. I was very poorly prepared for many of the activities - such as writing a business plan, setting the financial goals and evaluating maintenance issues vs potential profit. The ideas and skills needed to complete these activities are not terribly difficult but do require repeated usage to have a good instinct as to how things affect each other. I also believe that these are ideas that can be implemented in a number of existing courses and projects so that students are prepared to look at their professional situation with these criteria as part of their basic attack. In this competitive world, we must know how to best evaluate our situation so that we can remain competitive. As a sidebar - we implemented a number of ideas that prior to this program would have been laughable and we cut ~25% of the yearly budget of the facility, but it was too little too late. Other plants within the system have implemented some of these ideas and they are working great! Just think what would have happened had this type of thinking been taught to engineering students 10, 20 years ago!

•  I went into a Finance PhD program and have noticed that finance attracts a lot of physicists and engineers.

•  As a consultant, I have to analyze and solve business problems from a wide variety of businesses. I'm also currently in a MBA program. More business skills would help in both of these areas. Replacing Eng courses with Bus courses is least preferred because, while perhaps elitist, 99% of engineering students look down on Bus students. This is not without reason - I helped many a business student while working for IICF. Most Eng students would be bored in basic business classes, and would resent having to take them. Therefore the way to impart this knowledge is via existing courses or, preferably, as a component of the capstone.

•  For anyone who does engineering, at the bottom it is a business. This concept was never expressed while in school. People do this work to make money. Clients pay engineers for a solution to their current problems. Engineers are required to be responsible with their client's money while trying to make a profit for their company. Students need a more practical understanding of how the business side of engineering works. Such an understanding would have helped me from day one.

•  Forming my own corporation & investing outside of retirement.

•  Buy vs lease studies, return on investments, cost analysis of various operations/processes, operating income, personal financial portfolio.

•  Since graduation, I have become increasingly aware of the importance of economy in engineering design and solutions. It is important for an engineer to be aware of cost differences between alternatives, since oftentimes cost will be the determining factor in an engineering decision. This is true whether the final decision is made by the engineer or by the client. Part of my job as an engineer is to present alternatives, complete with pros and cons, to clients, and cost differences are always factors to consider in the process.

•  A cost analysis was needed to justify every project that I introduced and every purchase I requested.

•  The more you know about money flow the better you can look at for yourself. If you are too trusting you will be taken advantage of. If your company charges your time out at 200/hr and they are paying you 20/hr I relate that to a business/finance problem. I don't know the details but I support the Boeing engineers strike. Business managers respect business/finance skills more than they do engineering/computer skills.

•  Most of the design engineers I work with need to care more about the business side of things.

•  In order to manage an engineering project, one must: develop timing, estimate/quote costs, develop business cases to justify courses of action, influence people outside one's scope of authority. Engineering is not science. Engineering uses science to make business decisions. Cross functional teams have become a sacred cow. Although teaching how to work in teams is important, it is more important to teach courage and change. Improvement (change) is how engineers can best serve society.

•  To get projects approved in my job I had to justify the cost - prove the return that we would get and how long it would take to get that return. I worked for a bearing manufacturer for 5 years and this cost analysis I had to learn from others at my company. It should have been taught at OSU.

•  I do not feel that I was at all prepared to manage personal finances and understand topics such as corporate earnings, how the stock market is influenced, what a stock option is, etc which may be very beneficial to prepare for the "real world" and to better understand corporate decisions.

•  I have been involved in a major product development project where we all had to deal with various aspects of business and finance: developing and meeting cost targets, budgeting for equipment and other capital, calculating labor costs, implementing cost reductions in a manufacturing environment, coordinating with marketing during product development and production startup, producing forecasts and volume estimates for new products.

•  In the planning, marketing, justification, and managing of the research programs I lead.

•  Project management - As a new welding engineer I was tasked with controlling and installing $500K of equipment my first year. OSU did little to prepare me for the needed organization, cost forecasting, activity forecasting etc. I, like most new WE, had to rely on vendors and suppliers to teach me their methods (be they right or wrong).

•  Costing - All production should be tied to costing. Used to tie to accounting. Allows engineer to expect in an organization, prioritize improvements and measure results. Finance - Need to understand finance, capital purchasing, etc to get funding. Also relative amount of power in organizations in the finance departments of companies.

•  I am just beginning to do project management where understanding the business side of engineering will become more important. In general, engineering students should be more aware/better prepared to make engineering decisions based partly on the engineering economics of a project and to be able to manage the budget on a particular project they may/will be responsible for.

•  Better business skills, better budget skills, better cost estimating skills

•  Annual departmental budget preparation, review and approval. Specific project financial preparation review and approval. General business goals and direction. Better understanding of "other" departments' needs and goals.

•  As a business owner as well as a past business unit manager these courses would have helped immeasurably! I have used business skills to help in starting up manufacturing companies and these skills should be offered to those who have an interest in this area. A good start would be to teach engineers how to read a financial statement as well as a basic finance course.

•  I remember an IE course that we took to talk about manufacturing processes and how different processes are used for volumes of production. Engineers would benefit well from some real world dollar amounts for each process. Plus, they should have some idea of labor rates, overhead, margin. The econ course we took did not cut it. The internet has changed your students forever - they are well versed in the stock market, analyst reports and what drives market value. An introspective course on how engineering and product development effect corporate value would be valuable.

•  Establish own professional business 1 year post graduation and learn all business lessons @ the mercy of the "school of hard knock"; this cost us thousands.

•  Awareness of the following issues should accompany an individual with a BS degree: 1) Different buckets of money and the ramifications of each (capital, expense, IR&D) 2) Return on investment dollars 3) Cost estimation techniques and scheduling tools - how to form ROM values for labor and materials, project management tools and techniques (personnel time, utilization %, vacations, personnel and physical resource conflict resolution, Microsoft Project contains all of these variables and more. It is our standard project management tool and experience with it would map directly to a company and whatever tool it uses 4) Quickly make a decision and go with it. Many things can be analyzed to death but environments are so dynamic the optimal solution is never the same. Future decisions are easier to make when more decisions are known and not "coming next week".

•  In project planning a good understanding of cost estimation procedures is essential. We must develop cost and schedule estimates in order to generate realistic bids.

•  Design cost is multifaceted with major impacts sometimes conflicting. Business and finance classes do not address the real world requirements currently met by most engineers. The matrix management of most companies requires an extremely focused team that understands the importance of time to market within the constraints of marketing definition, cost, and performance. The business classes I have taken spend too much time defining terms specific to their end field and not focused on showing how to use the knowledge in a real world environment. Engineers need to learn how to quickly estimate cost alternatives and narrow their decisions to those that can be made in the time allotted. Short design projects with limited decision points leading up to a full fledge senior design project would make more sense.

•  Increased business/finance knowledge would help our engineers during the market analysis phase in their attempt to establish feasibility and pricing strategies for new engineering based products and services.

•  I am currently enrolled in an engineering administration program with Virginia Tech. The curriculum for this program is very much like what you appear to be looking for. I have enclosed information about the program from the ISE department manual, which can be accessed from the web at www.vt.edu . I have also enclosed a brochure that provides faculty contacts at Virginia Tech.

•  The strongest demand for engineers now and for the foreseeable future will be with companies designing commercial telecommunication related products. This business will be very competitive and very profitable. The most valued engineers will be able to work closely with marketing folks to best understand customers' needs. Marketing positions will be filled with people with technical backgrounds.

•  Now I own part of my company I am having a very hard time with accounting and finance. I am relying on our accountant too much. I am having a hard time analyzing the financial statement. I had to take an accounting class, which helped. However, I had no accounting foundation.

•  Organization behavior - selected an employer with a culture with a closer match to my personality. Project management - would not use mode as many on the job errors while learning on the job. Decision analysis - selecting between alternatives, engineers do this everyday. Strategic planning - create, plan, and manage a program of many projects over several years duration.

•  While an engineer, I had to do cost analysis for all designs. Also, proposals for manufacturing based on dollar figures were important. I worked for a small company where the engineers were expected to be able to handle a project from start to finish including the cost analysis and feasibility.

•  A brief coverage of cost estimating would be beneficial to me in my current position. One of my duties is to estimate heat treating costs and a basic understanding of the job of those requesting this information would be helpful. One idea would be to integrate this into a material selection project. The project could include selecting 2 materials and subsequent heat treatments if required and also comparing the cost of the final product (materials and processing).

•  Need to know more of the marketing side of things on my projects.

•  Every employee should be aware of business applications. The us vs them (engineer vs accountant) needs to be abolished to make the company better. Every employee should be on the same business related page to form a common link/goal.

•  Specific examples where business/finance is used - proposal writing, design decisions involving costs, the value of time vs money, learning to prioritize people's time against their "hourly" rate. Example - employee who's rate is $100/hr should they buy a $500 piece of equipment or spend two 8 hour days building it? I have seen too many engineers spend expensive time doing tasks that should have been delegated to lower level employees or purchased off the shelf components or hired another engineering resource instead.

•  Project management is almost synonymous with engineering projects. Managing (engineering) project life cycles is key to successful engineering programs/projects. For a good source of assistance, try consulting companies like General Electric ( Crottonville , NY ).

•  Owning a home, owning my own small business, working on large projects at work - purchasing, budgeting.

•  A large part of my job is to evaluate ideas, products and services based on their impact to the bottom line and then presenting my analysis to top executives. I am strongly in favor of adding more business/finance courses to the curriculum and would emphasis the need to include communication (oral & written) as well.

•  We really did not have much project mgt exposure during school, and my job requires project mgt ability on a day to day basis. Most important skills would be time management, schedule planning (Gantt Charts), and also purchase planning/justification.

•  I work in a company where I budget my own projects. Cost has become a very big issue on how I design. We argue on how different manufacturing processes are costed. I feel I have no information to contribute when these topics come up. I may go for a MBA to better understand.

•  The addition of courses to the curriculum is not necessary and will not teach the dynamics of projects they will encounter in practice. The engineering courses should be project intensive. The projects should be set up with a business content. For example - students could be separated into teams, then given the request for bids. The request for bids should accurately describe the problem, which is where the theory is introduced. Students then could develop proposals for the solution to the problem. The capstone course could be used to teach the next phase where the project is awarded and students must then manage the project. Problems should purposely be introduced to emphasize the 'change order' process.

•  Current work projects have a strong cost accounting component. I did take cost accounting from the business school in my masters program but because of schedule conflicts not until my last quarter. I really believe an undergrad focus would have been very beneficial much earlier in my academic and professional career.

•  As a project manager I had to continually evaluate different alternatives based on quality, cost and performance. I had to monitor costs for labor and material as well as develop schedules. We had to plan and facilitate meetings, interact with customers and supplies. Now as the manufacturing manager I have to balance all of the financial aspects with all of the manufacturing aspects. I would guess a lot of engineers move up this path. I felt I need a MBA to learn the business side of the company because we were exposed to zero business/finance issues during the ME undergrad.

•  My first project after graduation was to convince a large agency to construct a mitigated wetland. The agency did not see the purpose for spending a large sum of money on something they felt would not benefit them. I did not know the law or the potential tax breaks associated with this endeavor. However, we did end up agreeing on the community benefits. I still find it very difficult to produce fairly accurate preliminary cost estimates for my projects. Cost is almost always the most restrictive factor in my assignments.

•  Within any design team, any engineering decision I have had to make or help make has involved considering the financial/business merits of the project/product on almost equal terms with the technical merits. With a greater understanding of the financial/business aspects of engineering, I believe I could have played a more significant role in the decision process.

•  Better project management skills would have helped in a project in which I had to develop a proposal for a product tracking, data logging, and reporting system based on discussions with the customer. I had to come up with a project specification and proposal. I then had to follow the project through the design, implementation, debug, and installation phases. It can be somewhat overwhelming without some base knowledge of how you might go about it. I had recently completed a combined business and engineering masters degree at Case Western Reserve that helped me.

•  My main job description is a sales engineer. Every time I negotiate a contract, correspond with a customer on equipment payback etc. I must be aware of the financial consequences for my company.

•  Developing price and terms for large scale proposals to prospective customers. Long range planning in the development of a product line.

•  Currently, I am an assistant engineer with the Williams County Engineer's Office. I am now in charge of designing drainage projects from start to finish. This includes developing an estimate for the bid process. I would have benefited from a cost estimation and a project management course to help me through this process.

•  I apply for patents for new designs and must justify business value. I must evaluate all engineering proposals on a cost estimation basis.

•  Bid and proposals to new and existing customers for IT and computer integration projects.

•  Advancement within the company is linked to ones ability to successfully lead a project. Project management skills are critical towards enabling this advancement. Those without them, or unable to develop them plateau quickly. In consulting, decisions are based upon making tradeoffs, often times it is not just a technical tradeoff, rather a combination of cost, organizational behavior, organizational structure, time, etc. A broader business view makes decision making in this environment easier.

•  I am now a Technical Project Manager at a major defense contractor, responsible for the efforts and performance of 20-40 electrical engineers across five major development areas. Given the strict cost management required, technical management is now largely deferred to my highly qualified technical leads. I keep the staffing of the electrical engineering dept on my program closely aligned to the financial plan (which seems to change monthly) by coordinating with the company functional dept responsible for company staffing. I am responsible for Earned Value Management reporting for electrical engineering within the program, as well as change management (new processes/standards, new tools, etc). All of these skills have been supported by either on the job training, company training, natural ability, or a combination thereof. These days I personally apply the majority of my time to cost management. Schedule management is second. Next is reliability and other quality measures, and last is performance (using CAIV, our customer occasionally is willing to trade out performance for a reduced cost product.)

•  I was fortunate to have taken two fundamental econ classes that gave a good solid foundation for understanding the basic principles of economics. These courses were electives and I was lucky (not planned) to have taken them. I was also fortunate to have landed my first job in a gov't agency (Ohio EPA) that funded civil engineering (wastewater treatment) projects. That fundamental education/experience in project funding has served me well in being aware of the behind the engineering scenes critical funding decisions that must be addressed for every project.

•  Every major project I have been involved in (new equipment, plant construction) has started with a cost justification.

•  The business world is run by budgets. More and more I see entry level engineers required to figure in the "business cost" for even the most trivial design project. In my experience, most engineers do very well with technical issues but are unable to communicate solutions to non-technical individuals. Luckily for me, someone took me under their wing and tried to tie everything I did back to a business impact decision. Without the business knowledge, few technical people are able to present their ideas to the people who will fund the project. To put it in more personal terms, I graduated with a degree that got me in the door but in no way prepared me for what I needed to do to stay there.

•  Once you are given, or when you take on, a leadership position on a project, you typically are responsible for cost and technical management. Having business/finance experience greatly helps the cost management aspects of project leadership positions.

•  Almost daily I am asked to size up some kind of task, big or small. Tasks need to be broken down into manageable subtasks even if it is a one person task. Subtasks are "sized" and these sizes are added up to a total technical size. Then comes management, dependencies, integration, sell off, configuration mgt, etc. Once labor months are determined, the schedule needs to be laid out. A good schedule projects a completion date and a staffing plan to meet this date. Most young engineers are weak in these non-technical aspects of engineering. All our engineers support proposals for new business. This involves much writing and budget and schedule estimates as well as technical details of the product.

•  Understanding the value chain is critical. Without such an approach engineers will sub optimize individual components of the supply/value chain. Need to incorporate manufacturing management techniques like lean manufacturing into the curriculum. The most important areas of business I use daily are cost management and analysis and operating financial statements.

•  Cost estimates on projects - man hours, integration, testing equipment etc

•  There are many situations in which I would have benefited from having business/finance knowledge, but let me share with you the most recent concerns. The most recent were applying to Fisher's MBA program and preparing a business segment review for my boss. In applying to Fisher, I found there are some undergraduate course work that is necessary to be completed before being accepted into the program. Of the five areas (accounting, microeconomics, statistics, business law, business finance) only statistics counted in my technical electives for chemical engineering. Due to taking these other undergraduate courses part time while working full time, I added two quarters of classes and had to delay MBA school for another year. In preparing a business segment review for my job, I realized that I did not have the business/finance knowledge necessary to do a concise review. I had a great grasp on all of my customer's processes and how they used my company's product. What I did not possess was a real understanding of the financials. I knew it was bad if we sold our products for less than they cost to produce but I did not take into consideration the overhead like corporate administration, capital financing etc. Finance knowledge would make me more successful.

•  In project management the ability to estimate design/timing changes impacts to NPV (NPW) calculations would have benefited me tremendously.

•  Business/finance knowledge is used to make decisions every day, from establishing annual budgets, estimating costs for projects, to shutting down facilities, reducing production, or expediting delivers. Also, increased business knowledge would assist in applying strategic plans in your job responsibilities.

•  As a manufacturing/process engineer - operations management, reducing bottlenecking in process lines. As a testing/reliability engineer - marketing, selling a poor product, which is returned for analysis over and over, will result in a lost customer. As a product engineer - operations management, increasing process flow/reducing process time (ie reducing a product's burn in time) results in profitability.

•  As a consultant I administered storm water programs for various agencies in the San Francisco Bay area. It was necessary to be able to estimate costs for developing small projects and working within that budget. Consulting in general requires a knowledge of business/finance to effectively manage projects.

•  As a design engineer at New Holland, a project that I was working on could be done two different ways, each with different investment levels, manufacturing costs, impacts on marketing, and piece price. By having a better or broader understanding of finance and cost estimation I could have better presented which was the best alternative.

•  Numerous opportunities in past and current positions to do cost/budget analysis, project justification, NPV's, hurdle rates, IRR's etc. Financial analysis has also played a significant role in allocating my retirement planning funds.

•  Writing proposals, requesting capital, scooping projects

•  Project management, bid preparation, reviewing annual reports, cost accounting, departmental management

•  Both of my jobs have been with private companies. The first company had an upper management buy out and I receive shares but had to sell back when I left. My present job has given me stock options. I do not have a good understanding of the business world. Both companies have larger companies watching them looking for a chance to buy the company. Also I signed non disclosure agreements with both companies. I understand the meaning of the agreements but such things are not addressed in classes.

•  During my consulting experience most of analytical up front work involved looking at company financials and being able to understand data. I had to first learn the meaning of each data before analyzing them. This would have been a good skill to have before graduating.

•  The only thing I can recount is having been exposed to basic principles. Time value of money, interest rates, depreciation, etc taught in ISE 504. As for adding more business courses I feel this is the wrong approach. It is already possible to take electives if a student desires. I believe a strong foundation of fundamentals of engineering is what I chose my degree for. If I feel a further interest in business then I can pursue a MBA. For those lacking business knowledge, are they still engineers or now wanting another career path?

•  At work we seem to consistently be over budget on our projects. Most engineers coming out of school have no idea about what things cost in the real world. I also think that at least in the Chem Eng department, there is very little room in the curriculum to add more to the existing courses or any additional required courses.

•  At National Instruments I design PC data acquisition boards that had to have a low cost of production. Business sense was important for knowing when to cut cost and where not to cut cost.

•  Understanding the business quarterly and yearly reviews and performance. GE's training program had required finance classes that I wish I would have had more preparation for. Managing projects and costs. Preparing estimates for upcoming work (both time and $ estimates). Understanding 401 K benefits and the factors affecting the market.

•  I think it's a great idea to introduce more business/finance in the curriculum and I am very pleased that this is being addressed as an issue. I think that the #2 approach [Increase the business/finance content of the capstone/design project] is important, but I ranked it last because I think it is even more important to introduce business/finance at the beginning of the program. It should be a subject that is addressed and implemented in every ISE class. This will then prepare students even more for the capstone/design project which typically takes place during the last year of the program. Many industrial engineers will eventually be in a management position. A large part of the management responsibility usually involves completing projects on time and on budget. One other example of where business/finance knowledge is very helpful is in the implementation and support of the information systems of business. Finance and accounting ties in with every aspect of a business and is a part of every system. I recently worked on a project where we were installing a SAP system for a large corporation. I was on the team that was working on the installation of the financial module. Although a lot of the work I did was technical, a better or more in depth knowledge of finance/accounting would have been extremely helpful. One last suggestion is that you offer classes based on eCommerce. This is probably something that has already been considered, but it is so important in today's business world that I thought it was worth mentioning.

•  Return on investment analysis to consider purchase of new equipment or cost to develop new products.

•  If you can't market it or sell it, why design it? Engineers need to understand what finance and marketing are thinking in the development process.

•  When I worked in the bearing industry, we had many products that had been designed and developed decades ago. Many of our customers saw these products as commodity type items and expected a very low price. As a result, we sold many of these items below cost. We had to come up with ways to present these products to customers as non commodity items so that we would charge a higher price.

•  Developing estimated costs for long range plans. Estimating highway maintenance costs. More statistical classes would have been much more useful than high level calculus classes (ie 153, 254, 255/415). Stat 520 was much more useful than 153-255 combined.

•  When I worked for a consulting firm, one of the first large projects I worked on involved cost estimating a conceptual design. I had no idea where to start, though I was able to get help from co workers. Once completed, I had no idea if the costs were reasonable or unreasonable. While in the consulting field, I was working one major project and tried to work in a small project at the same time, to help our client out of a jam. I handled it as well as I could at the time, but recently took a project management, planning, and scheduling seminar which opened my eyes more to how tasks are tied to the critical path of project completion. I wished I had had more of that knowledge sooner, as the norm seems to be multiple projects or deadlines too tight for any mistakes.

•  For me, I would have benefited more in my personal life than my work life. A better understanding of budgeting, the stock markets, retirement planning would help me greatly.

•  Business fundamentals are very important, but are also very easy to learn on your own. It took very little time to pick up most of the useful financial concepts on the job. Including cost/benefit/risk analysis within design projects may be useful.

•  Since I am not yet in industry it's kind of limited (though I would like to have more general knowledge) but some practice in managing costs associated with research projects would not have hurt. I suppose that having cost accounting in the senior lab course (the one where a small group works with a professor on a short term research project) would help. Estimating the cost of the project, writing a proposal including a budget, that sort of thing. It's minor but it can't hurt.

•  In one project I developed an improvement to an existing process that nearly halved the costs. I spent nearly two years commercializing the new technology involved only to have the company outsource production six months after commercialization (the outsourced process did not use the improved design I came up with). As it turns out, the seeds of the outsourcing decision were there even before I started the process improvement project. If I had some decision analysis tools and cost accounting tools under my belt, I would have been able to foresee the inevitable and concentrated my efforts on other projects. It was this experience that made me realize how important business skills are to an engineer. I am currently pursuing a MBA at Kellogg Graduate School of Management, and in all likelihood will not return to engineering practice.

•  I'm right now starting to figure out my 401K investment portfolio and I have no clue about what to do. And I have an economics minor! As for my job - project management skills are key to surviving. I really don't have much if any involvement in the budgetary/financial aspects of my projects.

•  I was poorly prepared for project proposal and cost estimating in my current job. I would suggest reducing the hours required in the GEC area (english, history, humanities) and increase the number of hours spent in practical courses.

•  For buying a more efficient incinerator, I could have presented my justification with fewer revisions with a better knowledge of cost/benefit analysis

•  In my current entry level position, I have had no need for business knowledge. I know that my manager deals with these issues. The only time a business issue comes up is when I want to understand how well the company is doing financially.

•  Budgeting for projects, hardware, software, training etc

•  My first job after graduation involved project management of major engineering projects, with an emphasis on cost engineering.

•  Working in product development at Procter and Gamble, my focus is much more on business results versus the ideals of science. "How will I drive sales via delivering superior benefits in an aesthetic context that will enhance the total consumer experience with a given product?" Rightfully so, in school, the chemical engineering curriculum did not focus on such an integration and thankfully P&G has provided great guidance as will the opportunity to learn more via MBA, however, I do think that one cross functional course with a team project between business, marketing, finance, engineering and technology would be a fantastic experience that would teach all students valuable lessons no matter what each student pursues.

•  If I had more business/finance it might some day help me start my own business, once I become a licensed professional.

•  As an engineering group leader, I have to write and submit project proposals to our company's senior staff. These proposals include machine specifications, market survey, competitor's studies, and financial analysis from concept/design through prototype testing and production. Increased emphasis on marketing and finance at OSU would have better prepare me for these tasks.

•  I am a business process/enterprise resource planning consultant. The most beneficial courses to me in ISE were the eng. economic analysis, project mgmt, capstone, and computer programming/logical design type classes. I don't use much of the core ISE curriculum. I can say that some of the most beneficial learning I did since leaving OSU was studying for the Certified in Production & Inventory Management (CPIM) and Certified in Integrated Resource Mgmt (CIRM) from the APICS body of knowledge. I am a little disappointed that the ISE program at OSU never mentioned AACS or CPIM/CIRM, and instead focused on the PE licensing, which is hardly necessary for an IE. Incorporating business cases such as those I read to study for CPIM and CIRM would be invaluable to students when they face the various business problems that I try to solve everyday. I believe that the ISE program at OSU is good but could be improved if it focused equally on topics covered by both CPIM & CIRM. These certifications are valuable out lines of the type of information needed to make good business decisions today. Finally, I never heard of ERP at school, even thought it had been around for several years. Technology is changing the world of business and industrial engineering at a rapid pace. The curriculum needs to be adjusted every year to incorporate the latest knowledge.

•  Cost proposals of new equipment. Return on investment. Organizational behavior - dealing with employee problems, sexual harassment, performance reviews etc. Also recommend mandatory co-op, 5 year undergrad program.

•  Analysis of multiple scenarios with limited financial or manpower resources - project review for capital equipment, management of $500M+ capital plan. Analysis of capital investment vs piece cost and total life of product cost. Capacity utilization vs cost (real and lost opportunity) for integrating total production maintenance program.

•  I currently see to much emphasis placed on business/finance/profit etc. Not enough on quality/environment/safety. As an engineer whose responsibility concerns quality. I would benefit from business/finance knowledge for the purpose of better relating quality/environment/safety concerns to those who are most interested in business/finance/profit.

•  Sales proposals, speaking with upper management, starting own business.

•  Project return on investment calculations, understanding effects of savings and combinations of capital investments/amortization, tax effects etc. "How to make a project pay off"

•  I'm not sure what course work would have helped but I do cost estimation as a fair share of my job.

•  As an engineering manager, understanding the economic behind design decisions (eg margin) is critical. (what chip to use, boards to use, chassis to use etc) In my current role as VP of Advanced Technology at CMGL, I am constantly looking at new technology. There is always a component of the overall business model that effects the technology and how it may have to adapt to the market that must be considered. Presentation, writing, and speaking skills are also critical. When engineers are trying to sell a new project or idea it is typically to an executive group from multiple disciplines. Engineers who climb the corporate ladder have learned to speak to non engineers.

•  Our best engineers factor financial decisions from project concept through implementation and improvement. Example, what are the cost/unit implications of choosing one material over another. This includes all components of conversion costs (scrap, maintenance of equipment, shrinkage, direct and indirect labor, energy, waste streams etc) Most entry level engineers don't consider all elements of cost in an engineering decision. The other major blind spot for engineers is the lack of understanding of capital resource allocation and depreciation expense. Engineers often drive for new equipment purchase rather than repair, but are not skilled in cost justification for this type of decision. I often need to explain that the large depreciation expense hits our operating bottom line significantly. We use Net Present Value analysis for all our engineering decisions. Most engineers are critical to feed data, but aren't aware of what is required or pertinent to NPV.

•  If a new employee's goal/aspiration is to become a technical executive in the company, it is very important to have a business background. High level employees typically manage large (dollars and people) projects. Project management skills are very important as well as financial skills. "How to run a business" would be a great class, make it a requirement.

•  I've taken many business courses at OSU in addition to my IE degree. I must produce lots of ROIs for projects I'm involved in.